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Pelletiere has been in the news for various reasons. It’s been valued. I think it was 20 billion the other day, which, you know, is quite a nice chunk of change if you’re in the market for that. And also, Apple launched their streaming fitness competitor kind of service, which is presumably going to have an impact on sort of pelican’s revenues and finances. But that’s all yet to play out. So they’re somewhat topical at the moment. So I’ve got a tweet here from a guy called Turner Novak and he’s v.C. And he says, The full story of peloton is one of incredible grit and determination. John Foley, who is the CEO of PENITENTE, raised four hundred thousand and two million dollars, placed money valuation from eight angel investors from 2011 to 2014. He pitched three thousand angels of 400 firms. Almost everyone said no. Eventually, he raised 10 million from one hundred angels. The company is now worth 20 billion. So the illustration there is. Pellington is I’ve seen a lot people know pelleted a lot, people heard a person, you know, quite a few people own a peloton. There’s one in the house from staying at the moment. I haven’t used it like cycling, but, you know, it’s a very popular products. And when you look at these sort of like giant successful consumer products, it’s quite hard to visualise where they started out or what kind of went on in the background. And the assumption is usually are, you know, either this was some tremendously well funded thing, which is true. You know, they raised a lot of money over time. Or it got spun out of some large company or something like that. But that wasn’t the case, you know, behind the scenes. This guy went out, did a phenomenal amount of graft in terms of raising money and doing that kind of thing. And from my perspective, being involved in a few sort of fundraisers over the years, that is that is really true. I have you know, I and the people that I’ve raised money with did not go out and speak to 3000 people far for an order of magnitude less than that easily. But it’s still a lot of hard work and getting a funding round over. The line is extremely hard work. There’s lots of legal stuff, there’s lots of convincing to happen, there’s lots of negotiating and it’s really, really distracting, to say the least. You know, if you’re already running a company and you’re trying to make a success of that company, you’ve got to start out. And particularly because you’re usually raising money, because there’s some sort of deadline where you either run out of money or you need some money to invest in whatever it might be. And this time based pressure, there’s a lot of stress and there’s a lot of. Mental effort and physical effort that goes into sort of raising this kind of money and you really need to know this before you go in so that you can sort of set in your mind. Okay, I have. I think I have an understanding of this sort of amount of effort that’s gonna be required over this period of time. But the other thing to bear in mind is, is that it’s finite. Right. You either you either raise the money or you don’t. And the period in which you go into it is, you know, if there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. It finishes eventually because while you’re in it, it could be really like, holy cow, this is this is hard work and absolute grind. What? You’ve raised a whole bunch of cash over the years. You’re very successful at doing that. What what what has been your experience, that kind of that I think you’ve been sort of pedalling on the cash raising treadmill for most the time I’ve known you over the years. Yeah. So one of the cruise companies have found it. It’s on their lending business. So you’re always I mean, the lending business basically borrow money at some cost and lend it out with, you know, a mark-up that that’s what it is. So so you’d constantly need money to lend. So it was super intensive. And on top of that, you need the equity. So it was very time consuming. And I yeah, I did identified long on this case as well because I talked to I would say I would talk to a thousand people and get like five investors or 10 max. So it’s like less than one percent version rate and it’s. Yeah. In the process, though, you learn a lot of stuff. I would say the details. Does it matter on those numbers? Is this just the take away will be like super hard and time consuming. You need to you need to put a lot of effort and and don’t quit unless, as you said, you got a timeframe. You should set that length and either you raise it or not or the other option is right if you raise less. Just do what you can with the money you raised or or make progress as well. Without the need necessarily of having money. So the more you cut the show from no progress product point of view, MBP market feed that sidrah that the better the odds. I mean, of course, sales as well as this very good metric to show. But the more you have to show that, the higher the odds of raising the funds. And timing is key on so. Yeah. Without entering into the details of fundraising, we can do maybe another another focussed on tips for fundraising. But yeah, don’t it’s not a big numbers game. I would say so. It’s not that. Oh it’s one percent conversion rates. If I took two X I will get Y to start like that necessarily. You need to think you were targeted very well and you need to do very persistent, but you need to understand how to talk to when I want to tell them and all that kind of thing. But certainly is something done very well. Be full time for a long period of time. So you should not underestimate it or you should think very carefully before entering into that that journey. Yeah, I think another topic we should cover a feature point, which we won’t. On this particular episode is, you know, the the bootstrapping versus raising money, the, you know, the pros and cons of having a Start-Up where you take funding and the president comes away, you sort of you bootstrap your Start-Up or your business from the revenue that you raise. I think also that is quite important. When you talk about, like the CEO’s role in a Start-Up now, you may well be a one person Start-Up, in which case you’re wearing every single hat, including CEO. But, you know, in a small Start-Up, oftentimes the CEO is sort of key to roles, are raising funds and being the sort of clench seller for the product, particularly if you are sort of in the enterprise business, the business kind of space. Then you roll out the CEO to sort of shake hands on the deal with the large, deal with a large customer and do the necessary. And, you know, I think most CEOs that I know, most people who are in those kind of roles, that is a hundred percent of their work. You know, they should also be doing other things as well. But fundamentally, that’s that’s kind of the split the. So it’s all money, money, money, money. Also so. So I think the merit on this case of Peladon from the founder and CEO is not the amount of money he raised or how much money it’s worth because, you know, you can get lost with valuations on under funding rounds. But maybe your country or in your segment racing way less than that is as hard on as important. So, so, so don’t take that, you know, by VITAC or just. And just want to run this case by analogy and it may not apply to yourself. But the take away is that it’s hard. It’s going to take a lot of time and effort and you should not. But but certainly you should set deadlines. You should go. Yeah. Well, I only if you want to make it.