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And another side to the difficult is that you often run into with people, you know, having an organisation that’s made up of people and that kind of stuff is alignment of incentives. So we’ve got another tweet thread here, actually, from again, from Andrew Wilkenson. And he’s talking about that. And he says, I used to wonder why people in my country didn’t care as much as I did. I didn’t get excited about revenue wins or saving money. I always had to do that stuff, otherwise it wouldn’t get done. Turned out to be simple incentives, drive behaviour. I was paying everyone a flat salary no matter what happened to the business gain or loss. They got paid the same. Why would you care about driving a little bit more revenue? If anything, more revenue equals more stress. As soon as I start layering in variable bonuses based upon hitting targets, the company doubled in a year. Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome again. That’s Margaret. Court incentives. A real hard one to get right. And it can often be a bit of an afterthought because you as an entrepreneur or if you’re if you’re starting a business, then there’s probably an element of drive and passion and motivation you got for that business because you’re either super interested in the business model or the product or the service or whatever it might be. You might be super passionate and interested just about entrepreneurship in general and doing your own thing and being a boss. And you might just be a sort of passionate person in general. A lot of entrepreneurs tend to have be on the most passionate scale of thing because you need to have that to get to drive through a lot of the fun and games and hurdles and problems it gets right away. That that personality type just helps. And I’ve definitely found this in the past. It’s like you’re there and you’re slaving your slaving away at a business. You know, you’re working 12, 14 hour days and you’re going and going and going. And you’re right. And you’re going and, you know, you employ someone and then. Or you employ those people and they turn up at night nine, they go home at five. They take an hour for lunch. They did, you know, very standard and actually fine. Okay. Employee things to do. But you’ll see they’re going like, wow, man, I’m just. Why aren’t they sort of. Why isn’t this sort of passionate motivation’s sort of, you know, rolling off? Why is what? Rubbing off? Why is it not, you know, motivate? Why aren’t they working harder and evolves? You gotta put yourself in a different sort of headspaces of people, like people have different work life balances and things like that. And that’s totally understandable. But. It’s very often like as an afterthought. As an entrepreneur about incentives, because a lot of the incentive for you is built in. In doing the thing and maybe you’ve got some longer term financial incentive anyway, because if you are the owner of the business, then the rewards of the business will come to you eventually. But, you know, you obviously have to work hard and scrape by in the first instance. But, you know, there’s there’s that in the background. Plus you’re really into it. And, you know, you’re very aligned. You are incentivised just by the nature of the base. And you just forget that the other people aren’t in the same boat as you. They are you know, they are employees. They are doing a job that they may enjoy it and they may or the rest of it, but ultimately is a job to them. It’s not the most precious thing. They’ve got families and all the rest of it going on. And so it really pays to think about, okay, how. Again, we were talking about sort of Elon Musk and Space X and the way that you can align people’s sort of goals and metrics and incentives to the sort of the outcomes that you want from the companies and from the company and using. Okay, I guess you can do that as well. The Google Oakdale’s framework. And so having those incentives where it’s like, okay, if if the company needs to increase revenue and decrease churn and do whatever it is like, how do you incentivise and compensate your employees to be care about the same things that you care about? And actually for employees, it’s far more about like, oh, they paid to care as much as. Do they just naturally care in general? What kind of experience have you had with sort of incentive schemes or like changing compensation to make sure that sort of some of these things are aligned? There’s a bunch of options that you can play around off. Of course, if you are starting a company with the founders, you have equity that you can do people. But then as you grow, companies do share options. They’re especially valuable and very common in listed companies because it’s very liquid ISIS sort of bonds. But they still have our next strains. And, you know, to it’s not a cash payment. It’s just a stock payment. Some. Yeah. And many it’s it’s a way, I think, beyond all these are I said I mean, the equity part, stock options are not what when you leave stock option unless you give a lot of stock options, which is more to key managers than ace like a cash payment or like a bonus based on results that that’s always the case. But usually start-ups are rarely doing that much of a profit, you know, to be paying bonuses. So I think Bain equity and I think it’s worthwhile giving enough equity to people that are really important organisation, because that’s a sign that that’s going to be a key success factor for your company to keep people. But I wouldn’t undermine their importance to many employees to just feel like listened within the organisation. So just the fact of listening to their ideas and being around, you know, talk to them either yourself or their managers or someone in the organisation that goes on, say that a cha, you know, just us. Yeah. Ah, yeah. S. It’s more about having a system where ideas can play some nango from the bottom up all the way through on billis 10 are not. I not only listen but also action on them. So that that’s very rewarding for many people and it’s been hugely beneficial for the company as well. So I think Netflix has this approach as an organisation. They always say they encourage people to be creative. They don’t have ly maximum holy days per year. We can take as many holidays if you want. So so they have less structure and more of. They create what they call I’m paraphrasing, but it’s more like they’re out the right setting or atmosphere for their ideas to flourish. So yeah, that’s an interesting approach. And certainly people stay motivated. Of course then they will like compensation. But yeah, just link them to a company’s performance is one thing, but also just listening to them. I will say something important. Yeah, I think I think you make a good point about there is there is a difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. So intrinsic being, you know, the stuff that comes from where within you your own personal motivation or the stuff that motivates you and extrinsic, which is the externally applied kind of source of that, can be, as you said, like money that can be praised, that can be understanding, listening to trustable, you know, other sort of more intangible kind of extrinsic. Yeah, and trying to find that right balance can be can be delicate, right, because different people are demotivate motivated by different things. And so you have to be you have to try and ferret out, find out what motivates a particular person more than other things. So like, for instance, for example, personally, I tend to sort of buy into the mission of the thing, whatever it is this going on, that I find that relatively motivating. I find small amounts of equity far less motivating than some people. Partially because it’s kind of like, well, it doesn’t feel like much at all. Yeah, this is just my personal view. To me, it doesn’t feel like that much to you know, I’ve I’ve had small bits of equity in other things that send it to nothing. So to me very much feels like a raffle ticket as opposed to anything which is concrete. It doesn’t pay the rent, doesn’t buy me food, doesn’t do it if I want to. But there are plenty people who are like that. And I want my sort of basis point equity option because I want to know max out my pension contribution and I want to, you know, because they’re motivated by very different things that might be sort of long term stability vs. short term gain. And people are on that or on different sort of spectrums when it comes. That comes. Yeah, some say some people also value like working remotely for some now it is mandatory, but. Yeah, but still many people enjoy that. Others are the opposite. They like to go to an office. So yeah, I think you’ve made a good point as well. I’m trying to balance all that everyone out. Yeah. It’s gonna be hard, but maybe just have different mean or flexible policies. I would say, of course, that it depends on the size of company. In the beginning, you just need committed to working people over time. It’s fine to have just employees that are more predictable as well. Don’t. Not not every 100 percent needs to be fully charged. So. Yeah. So you should be. You should create like a competitive environment. But yeah, that is that provides gratification as well for for people to stay on. Cool. Okay. Well, that’s our podcast for this week. Thanks very much for listening. We’re back every Thursday. Please cheque out our YouTube channel where we post this podcast and other videos. You can search for a net workers, which is two words, or you can find the link in the show notes for this podcast. Wherever you’re listening, if you’re interested in help, mentorship, of course. His version of entrepreneurship and starting businesses, please cheque out our website, which is at Networkers Dot Cope. So your next to Mike.