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The following video transcript is generated automatically by a computer algorithm that learns and gets better on a daily basis. Please accept our apologies if some content below doesn’t make sense:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Daily Dose podcast. This is podcast where we pick out things from the news and social media that’s interesting to us as entrepreneurs and as business nerds on James. And I’m joined by my co-host, Marcella.

Hey, mate, how are you?

I’m very good, thank you. This week I have got a couple of tweets that I found and also a more sort of general topic on entrepreneurship.

First up, there is a tweet from a guy called Sam Parr on Twitter. He is he runs an online news ethical hustle. And he’s also got a very successful podcast himself called My First Million, which is very interesting. I listen to that one. And he picked up someone had posted on Glassdoor, which is the kind of. Site where people write their employers.

Basically, if you if you work for a company or you have worked for a company in the past and this site encourages, you saw a review of even your co-workers, your boss, the company in general, so that if you’re looking to get a job in one of these places, you can go and see what sort of spread of reviews are working at that. Places like. And someone on there has posted about Tesla as happy about Elon Musk and said that they previously worked at Tesla and they’re exact. I’ll I’ll read the exact reviews. You can get a feel for what they’re going on about. You know, usually people who post on there don’t you don’t tend to be my advice to post positive stuff. And this is mainly negative stuff, to be honest. But, you know, take it take it for what it is.

So this guy says or this person says about Elon Musk, on the one hand, he actually says these excellent emails about business philosophy and avoiding siloing wasteful meetings and that managers are there to support their employees, not the other way around. Ten out, ten on that one. He leads an all hands meeting. He usually has interesting things to say, especially if you get free from thinking out loud during a Q&A session. On the other hand, he has a relentless micromanager and singlehandedly derails production, reduces product quality, makes hundreds of people have to work much harder and causes massive waste because he wants to see every little detail and change those details at literally the last minute is grossly inefficient and it’s ruining the company. Bit by bit. My advice to management, the company will but would work much better if a loan was only an idea man locked up safely in a room somewhere with his hands completely off of operations.

And then so Sam, Paul has as got this great show on this tweet and he asks, is this person right? She suddenly just showed me hands off. Or should people accept that micromanaging stroke headaches is a bypass of genius? What do you think? So I think where both Elon Musk fans from the at least for the perspective of a business and what he’s achieved. I’m not surprised to hear that he’s quite micromanaging. He sort of strikes you. Is that like so the person who wouldn’t be shy in coming up with an opinion on every topic. Well, what do you think is is what do you think about micromanagement and what do you think about Elon Musk being a micromanager?

Actually, it’s a great question on how you phrase it, because I think, generally speaking, micromanagement is bad.

You should build the processes are also the atmosphere within the organisation so the ideas can the best ideas can go flourish and go all the way up and make, you know, these diverse set of groups. And that will eventually improve their workings based on the output of the company. That’s. With that said, though.

Certainly in this case, broadly, it will be different.

He’s one of a kind and also something that many people don’t realise is that he is a top engineer as. So he knows what he’s talking about, even if he’s wrong. He will be many times wrong. But he will make himself accountable for that. So I think he is self critic. He also has a lot of information. So probably way more information than anyone else in that company because he not only runs that company, he runs many other companies. So he and he’s involved in all the manufacturing, all the design, all the engineering and the business. And so he he wants to he also has a very proven understanding how to sell. He has got better at that. He went from being a super nerd, very introverted to. Now he’s kind of charismatic when he talks. He’s having a great time because of that. Can now see that his companies are working his home fund. So also, he has this this huge company. So corporations are complex and he doesn’t have much time to explain you why he’s making that decision.

You know, that’s why I think in this case, he’s just, you know, going just pushing downstream decisions that made people would not like. But if you cheque the pace that this guy is working and making decisions. So. So Tesla is not only a U.S. company, they have jigga factories in China. They have a Jigar factory now in Berlin. So I was he was there like I think this week or last week. I saw some videos of him. So he goes there in person. He gets involved into the details on how is that new factory work. And by the way, that factory, it’s different from the other two factories. So he’s always you know, it’s not that he said that this is the way to do it. He’s always seeking how to do it the best way.

And listening to people and maybe he you know, he started with one concept in the US and then went to Germany and they do it better. And he comes back and say, no, let’s do it this way. He doesn’t have time to explain why. So certainly the company could be overvalued, but he has done a great job.

So I think probably with Elan, he could be potentially exempted from that. But that’s this general rule, micromanaging people. It’s to use for those people you will struggle to attract talent because they would not like to be micromanaged and you will starless entrepreneur to build a company from there.

So also, it will narrow it will drag you down from making other important decisions. So hiring more. Yeah. A long term view on where this should go. So that’s my my take on this at the moment at least.

Yeah, I, I agree. I think a big mistake that people tend to make in life in general, I think not just in sort of entrepreneurship and businesses to try.

They go too far to try and learn specific, detailed lessons from very successful individuals like the top peak individuals. So if you look at people like Steve Jobs, like people you know, absolutely class people absolutely adore Steve Jobs and how he went about his business. People you know, Jeff Bezos as well. You know, people, people who have created amazingly successful businesses. Steve Jobs with Apple and Pixar, for example. You know, Jeff Bezos, Amazon, Elon Musk, Space X and Tesla, et cetera. They are they are almost the exceptions to the rule. Like, say, usually the rule is, you know, bad things happen when you micromanage. But I think in close case, it’s like, sure, he micromanages. But that’s just a small. Problem, problematical part you get as part of this greater hole, which causes the company to be more successful with his presence presence than otherwise. I’m sure there have been certain occasions where his micromanagement have led to suboptimal outcomes in certain areas. But his presence in general means that the outcomes are going to be greater than they otherwise would be.

And also that these people don’t approach this in the same way, you know. So, for example, Jeff Bezos is very famous delegator. You know, he he’s not a micromanager in the slightest. He is very much kind of. Okay, I’m going to build a team. To go away and do this thing over here and I’m going to hold them to account, but it’s very much. That’s the task I want doing. You need to go and do that. I’m going to make sure that you are performing, you know. Oh, I’m going to hold you to account to performing at that level, but you got to go and do that. So all of the business and all the sections of business and Amazon all have their own CEOs and they’re called CEOs because they are the people who are running those parts of the business. It’s not him in there in the weeds doing this, that and the other. Someone makes a good point in the thread under the tweet, which is sort of product creative product. Leaders tend to be very micromanaging. So Steve Jobs was infamously micromanaging, like he would go and, you know, berate people about individual pixels on certain designs and all that cost.

I mean, really down in the weeds kind of stuff, because he was a creative, perfectionist product kind of person. And I think Elon Musk as well, being an engineer is very much a product person. Right. So or all of Tesla and SpaceX exes and all those other companies like marketing and everything is all very much like product and engineering led. Right. You know, he doesn’t they don’t have sort of, you know, masterful advertising or marketing teams. They let the product sell itself. And he’s a, you know, part of that sort of showmanship that he’s about is like letting the product speak for itself or talk about the how much better. Order of magnitude better the product is than competing products. So I think the lesson is, is it’s the same in sports, for example, you know, you want to get good at basketball. Then you shouldn’t model yourself on specific parts of Michael Jordan’s character, because Michael Jordan was just like a phenomenal talent at basketball and was successful partly because some of his personality quirks, but also some of his personality quirks, which just happen to be there along for the ride as well. Same with Steve Jobs, right. Like, you know, he was an absolute arsehole, as by all accounts, you know, and a very unpleasant person, but.

That wasn’t the thing that made him successful. That just happened to come along with a package and so like modelling yourself just completely on arbitrary parts of someone’s personality or just in. That’s like cargo Colting. You know, that’s like just, you know, just eat. You’re not getting the right lessons from that. So I think the wrong lesson to get from Elon Musk is that micromanagement is a good idea for sure. But I think that micromanagement is just a part of him and it comes with the package. And, you know, you’d far rather have him here micromanaging, you know, all over the place and helping you be successful than not having the.

Yeah, that shows us well, in contrast to other CEOs that he’s highly committed.

So, yeah, that’s very important for the company. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Another tweet that I came across was from a guy called Andrew Wilkinson, who runs a company called Tinie, I think, which is a kind of incubator stroke. They invest in sort of small businesses. They own dribble the design company, and they go out and they buy a lot of these kind of smaller companies and they run them under a holding company. And he always has some quite interesting stuff to say on Twitter. And so one of the things that he’s been talking about is the fact that there are. Talking about in the same way as we were just talking about, there were sort of different styles of leadership in companies and different styles of entrepreneurship that he he says that there are four types of entrepreneurs. So the people come at entrepreneurship from four different areas. No one is innovators. The person who and he gives the example of burrito’s right. So no one is innovators resentence. That’s the person who came up with a burrito in the first place. Number two is remixes, and that’s the person who creates like Chipo. You know, they take something that’s already invented and they take it out and they turn it into a big brand thing that goes out. Number three is scalars, and that’s the person who scales that thing to like 100 plus locations. So they take an already existing product and process, but they scale it out. And number four is optimisers. These are the people who take, you know, things that may already be happening at scale, but then turn it into something that’s really highly optimised, get the process really honed down and gets the margins in the right place. And that kind of stuff. Do you think that this characterisation is correct? And which of those four do you think that you are?

Yeah, I think in general, the perspective or the entrepreneur is viewed as the inventor, journalist speaking on the other line, scaling or optimisation attributes are awarded to lay managers or executives within a company.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m biased. I’m thinking that way. Certainly there are entrepreneurs that they like to focus on. Yeah.

Like scaling companies or just sun their product and then sell it or. Yeah. I would say from a growth point of view you can differentiate and produce those who like more than to be, you know, the inventors and other ones who wants just to make quadrillions, you know, and they go for the moonshots, which is, you know, very hard to find, very hard to be, you know, at the right time, right place with the right product. But they look for that. They’re just looking for that. They will go acquire smaller companies and try to grow them or they will just act as mentors or they will become business angels. Many, many entrepreneurs, they turn to the investment side. They turn on some of them very hands on. That’s that’s probably a profile of an entrepreneur trying to scale. Companies are loving that part and not liking much. They they you know, that initial face off, all that friction on cows, son and discovery stage, you say so. Yeah, I would categorise them on stages and I would say definitely managers who in a company are usually more qualified than the turnover to bring cost down and on and improve efficiency within the processes, even probably for scaling. It will not come down to only that for her. I think it will be more about that, the ability of our team to execute on that growth. So, yeah, it’s interesting. For sure. Just to think with those different angles, those four categorisations, probably there’s a thin line between entrepreneur and intrapreneur. So those who are entrepreneurs within the organisation. So broadly, I would say some of those categorisations feet the intrapreneur profile. But that’s just my my opinion.

So that would you say that you are you’d you would classify yourself more in these sort of innovator striped remixer pulps rather than a Schuyler optimiser?

So I would say definitely the creator on scalar, not optimiser. And they’re the optimiser.

It’s something that I do look forward to hire people on taking care of. But that’s far different. It’s like hiring people that compliment your weaknesses. So I’m more optimistic.

Forward looking, just. Yeah. Driven entrepreneur tried to execute on ideas, test ideas that make sense. Build teams and grow. And I know we need to be efficient, but died just over time. Of course, you learn how to grow more efficiently by doing lots of testing along the way, not just one, but all the time.

I’m being self critic as well. So I think that that’s important.

But yeah, I would delegate day different data that cost optimisation.

And I do get involved, though, in the product design are like always on at any stage because it’s never finished. As you know, a product you need to keep by two eighty nine lunch and you birds. So that’s I’m going. Yeah. But I am definitely not on each are proner. I never worked for a company. I’m not sure that’s good or bad. It’s just not how it worked out. Probably is harder if it never worked for a company to do. You will need to gain expense all by your own.

But then again, that’s how it is now and then.

Which doesn’t mean that other intrapreneurs cannot do a great job and then become set up their own company. I mean, there are loads of those cases. Yeah. They gain experience being. Pioneering a company, and then they take all their expertise and contacts and go setup their own and grow from there.

Yeah, yeah, I think.

I think entrepreneurship is quite a broad bucket. And I think, like being an entrepreneur is is about forging your own path and doing your own thing, either on your own or in, you know, with other people, like minded people. And I think it’s it’s it’s defined by what it’s not more than by what it is. So it’s not having a job in a bank and it’s not, you know, working on a career ladder. It is going away and doing the right thing. And so I think because it’s defined by what it is not that it actually encompasses quite a wide range of different people’s different skill sets. So in an argument I would make would be, for example, that I I do agree with this characterisation that NGO workers and makes here. I’m I don’t think that that is all of them. I think there’s probably more than those four. But those for us that are very obvious sense of broad categories. And I think that everyone in all of those boxes are and can be entrepreneurs, because you can think of examples in in all of those buckets. Like, so there are there are some obvious ones in terms of innovators and remixes. You know, a lot of Start-Up pitches, as are we are X for Y, which is the classic remix kind of sets up. Right. But I do think that, you know, even someone who sets up their own franchise of, like Subway is still an entrepreneur. Right. Because they are forging their own path. They’re doing their own thing. Yeah. They’re going down a far more structured kind of like path and with a better knowledge of where that’s going to take them and what the outcomes might be and what the capital expenditure might be. But they are still, I would suggest, entrepreneurs, because they are otherwise risking things as well. Right. Is is an important part of being an entrepreneur. And I think that you can be like a hugely successful and a very, you know, someone to be looked up to, even if you’re not particularly sort of an innovator or a mix. Like the classic example of a scalar and an optimiser being a very successful entrepreneur is Ray Kroc, who bought the McDonald’s brothers burger joints and turn that into the you know, created the process and created the scale and turned that one little burger place into the giant global business that is McDonald’s today. Right. And that was purely done based upon. Optimising, scaling and optimising the process of, you know, making and creating a very standardised menu and a standardised product which could be easily and quickly and cheaply rolled out. All over the country and then all over the world, and to become like this giant thing. So. So I think that. Underlying this is probably if you feel that you have if you listen to this and you feel that you have an entrepreneurial bent, it’s kind of like which is a good idea to try and work out, as you said, where your strengths and weaknesses are, because you want to make sure that you are doubling down on those areas in which you are strong. And then trying to mitigate those areas in which you are weak. I think it’s I personally believe that it’s good advice to sort of, you know, take advantage of the gifts that you already have. And although, you know, in other areas of life, it’s probably a good idea to work on your weaknesses. I think when it comes to entrepreneurial entrepreneurship and business, you you should double down on what you’re strong at. And then either hire all or find other ways to mitigate where you’re weak. I think you’ll get better value out of doing things where you’re strong and, you know, finding a complementary person to to take the reins where you’re weak.

So we’ve talked about Elon Musk and his micromanagement. And we’ve also talked about the various different types of entrepreneurs that are out there and how risky that can be. So the other topic that we wanted to talk about was how does your personal sint personal situation impact you as an entrepreneur? Meaning? You might be thinking about leaving your job and starting your own thing, you might already be on the entrepreneurial path, you might be at school and thinking about what it is that you want to do post school. So how does your personal situation impact your success or otherwise of as an entrepreneur? So, for example, you know, Elon Musk very famously has got about twenty seven thousand kids. He also infamously works like twenty eight hours a day. So, you know, his family life. I don’t know what that’s like, you know, but presumably there are some things that are sort of slipping through the net there. And between us, we have a very different you know, we’re similar ages, but we have a sort of very different set up in terms of personal lives. I’m single. I don’t have any kids. And I’m doing entrepreneurial stuff. You are married and you’ve got three kids, young kids, and you’re doing entrepreneurial stuff. So. So how do you feel? So I know, for example, from my my perspective, you know, I know how much hard work goes into being an entrepreneur and how much anxiety and angst and risk and things like that all weighs upon you. And for me personally, if, you know, imagining that I had a wife and three kids. I can’t imagine doing it in that situation. But you do it and you do it successfully.

You know, I find it hard enough without those additional I call them distractions. But you probably call them something else. How how do you sort of approach this kind of thing from your perspective versus and how would you sort of say it from my perspective?

Yes. So I’d be an entrepreneur without wife and kids and with wife and kids. Certainly it puts more complexity into the equation of entrepreneurship.

I would say because Matley made at the core you have more responsibility and therefore enterprise should be sol about risk taking on uncertainty. So having uncertainty with more responsibility, that’s a problem. So that can create, you know, a lot of stress or tension which can affect relationships very directly. It could be very directly correlated. So, yeah, eLong has the defaecates, but not with the same wife. And and Steve Jobs was famous for. Now letting down or having a bad relationship with his daughter or one of his recognised daughters, something that.

So there are other cases. I think there is never a good time to have kids. Yeah. So. So there is not. So you cannot plan. You cannot say, oh, yeah, when I’m financially stable, I’m going to have kids because that’s still gonna be a good time. And it’s unlikely you will have that all that sorted anyway. And you have other problems. So so you just need to have a leap of faith. Test go for it. You don’t need to think that much, I think. Yeah. It is more about if you have the opportunity, you know, you met the right person and you want to have kids, then have kids regardless if you want to start or not companies. So it’s two different things. And they can coexist differently. So you need to make it work. Also, Brawley’s even harder. I don’t know if it’s harder or not, but it’s you know, we all know that being quarantined due to their pandemic, a task put a lot of pressure on relationships, especially marriage. All right. You like boyfriends in general.

So it’s just people leaving, other people living together.

So working from home, it can can be even harder for interference with family, but at the same time could be easier. You can turn it into something positive for you. I have worked most of my time from home. I definitely even companies that they set up, they have offices, but I don’t go as often as some people go. So it’s. Yeah. You need to a more disciplined life.

I find that it depends, of course, a lot on the type of business you’re running in. So tech businesses. So I feel very confident in working remotely with teams. But on manufacturing businesses, we saw going to be the same. You need to be there is, you know, checking what’s going to get really bent.

But yeah, you yeah, there is always is always going to be stressful.

So. Yeah. How much more stressful.

So you reached a point where you just need to let it go, let it happen. And it’s important that you focus on what matters.

Probably it will accelerate the process for you to understanding priorities. And also our recommendation, I would say, would be not to stress out. That’s definitely a bad thing to do. You will be out too actively. But, you know, concern on making a living or providing for your family or that’s so you so you’re not you don’t need to think about it. That’s going to. It’s like when you’re hungry, like your need to think that you need to eat. You’re just gonna be hungry.

So. So don’t overthink stuff and don’t complain because it’s hard. And also, at the same time, you will need to enjoy your precious years. That will go fast because then don’t wait until you have financial stability to enjoy.

Your kids are also you. And if it’s harder when they are very young and if you are if you don’t have support from your family for any reason, you are away abroad or are just you don’t get along well and you don’t. You’re gonna pay for extra support because you’re starting companies and you don’t have money. So, yeah, you need I think. It’s very important that your partner understands that you want to start these companies. I’d argue you can involve her into that. Both could work that out or she should do her own, but then be understanding on what you want to achieve on these for the greater good. So I think if you have a space where you can work from home, you can get done both. You can work so you don’t need to commute. So you dong you actually if you can wake up early and go and reappear very late, but you can sneak between times up some time, you know, quiet time like one hour, hear your partner or keets maybe drop them off to school, because if you are an entrepreneur as well, you can manage your time so that you complain to your advantage as well. So yeah, we were talking be our podcasts on war card versus what smart I think you are. You will need to develop a lot of the smart thinking on prioritising, but also on what just doesn’t matter. I mean, it’s a latent risk hour or like, Fred, that you will have there, but you just need to think on what you are doing next. You should also think long term, but execute short term ideas. Do listen.

Yeah.

I would recommend having kids there, but because it’s fun, but definitely it’s expensive on it’s a massive responsibility.

And as you said, that structure needs. Yes, it’s hard. And also I would say you get used to. Yeah. So the first one is for hard. Then it becomes less harder for somebody’s son. You get experiences like building businesses. So as you think I said, give if you compare like a kid with a business. So he starts by like it starts with being loss making on the first two years. And then you aim to break you and where you are three. You can either let it slip beyond that and then it can be profitable, scalable. B, you know, up past bussy yield passive returns or like that. And that will be the analogy.

Great stuff. So two, to paraphrase, is being a bit like being kidnapped. Eventually you’ll get Stockholm Syndrome and you’ll come to sort of love your kidnappers. So great. OK.

So I know that we fall on opposite sides of this line. But, yeah, I can’t I, I can imagine doing it with kids, but fair play to those that I know. I know how much of it goes into. I say around. Right. That’s it for this week. Thank you very much for listening. We’ll be back next week with some more nuggets of knowledge. In the meantime, please do cheque out our YouTube channel, which is where we post this and our other podcasts. You can search for net workers, two words or you can find the link in the show notes of this podcast. If you’re interested in a deeper dive into all things entrepreneurial, including more detailed information, help mentorship and courses, please do cheque out our Web site, which is up networkers DOT Co. See your next one. Thank you.

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